Africa Europe Youth Academy (AEYA): Investing in the Leadership of the african youth

Fary GUEYE: Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Miradi Podcast. Today, we are going to talk about a program that will make you discover not one country, not two, but several countries across the continent, which is a very important initiative aimed at youth. To talk about it, we have the two project managers: Raphaëlle Némont, who is the field project manager based at the Abidjan office, and Hélène de Laplace, who is also a project officer for this program at the Expertise France headquarters in Paris. Hello Raphaëlle, hello Hélène. I'll let you introduce yourselves and tell us a bit more about the program.

Raphaëlle: Shall I start? Seniority rights? Alright. My name is Raphaëlle, I am a project manager at Expertise France and more specifically responsible for the Africa Europe Youth Academy project, which we call AEYA, its short nickname. I am based at the Expertise France office in Abidjan with the rest of the team. There are 6 of us in total on this project out on the field, and we have Hélène's support in Paris.

Hélène: And so, I'm Hélène de Laplace, I am a project officer at the headquarters within Expertise France, specifically in charge of this AEYA project.

Fary GUEYE: Super, thank you very much for this introduction. I look forward to having this discussion with you, knowing that you have, I imagine, two different perspectives because you have the field approach and the other at headquarters. To begin with, maybe you could tell us again about this program, the AEYA. Give us more details on what it consists of, who the beneficiaries are, and where you stand today.

Hélène: Well, AEYA is a project funded by the European Union, which is what we call a multi-country project, covering 20 countries in sub-Saharan Africa. The total budget is 15 million euros, and it will last four years in total. The objective is to strengthen the leadership capacities of young people in Africa across these 20 countries. So, in our definition of young people, it's the 18-30 age group. We deploy this Expertise France project in partnership with AICS, which is the Italian Co-operation Agency. It's the equivalent of Expertise France on the Italian side. So we are in a consortium together and we split up, in fact, the fields of activity and/or the countries. We'll be able to tell you more about that in a bit. We haven't actually started our activities strictly speaking yet. We are going to talk about it, tell you a bit about everything we planned. Last year, in fact, we had a year of what we call a launch phase, where we prepared the activities and tried to target them as best as possible so that the planned activities meet the needs of our target audience as closely as possible. Hélène, do you want to present the fields of activity maybe? And so we were launched on February 1st, 2025, right? So it's been... No, 2025. It's been roughly a year since we launched.

Fary GUEYE: Thank you.

Hélène: There are three fields of activity. The first component focuses on support for youth spaces. The idea is to distribute grants, notably to spaces that would be created by youth and also for youth on the continent, with a component also on capacity building and training. The second component is aimed more at young people as individuals, at young leaders, project holders. When we say young leaders, we mean both a young person at the scale of their community who can solve problems, but also a young entrepreneur or a young civic actor, but note, non-partisan. And so the second component aims to train them and also to reinforce the capacities of incubators or training centers in the countries of activity. And the third component is more transversal and is managed by the Italian agency. It includes an online training component which will therefore be accessible to young Africans but also across the world, and an online mentoring component in which we also want to invite young Europeans, and notably alumni of European Union programs, as well as a final component of local events to help them connect with each other.

Fary GUEYE: Okay, I see. Thank you very much for this presentation. You took a year to do the conception, preparation, or launch phase. So today, how are you approaching this transition to action for the coming months? Both on the ground and at the level of certifications.

Raphaëlle: I would say that we are approaching it calmly and confidently. In any case, I would say confidently, because we have the strength of our team. And yes, because there was a lot of work done during the conception phase. Besides, I wasn't used to such long launch phases. And at the beginning, when Expertise France recruited me, they told me that there were eight months of inception phase, it felt like an eternity. I thought to myself: "We are going to waste time, we need to start faster." But in fact, no, it was more than necessary. In fact, we took a bit more than eight months in reality because, well, it's super important to think through the project properly. It allowed us notably to tour most of the countries, hold consultation sessions with young people, and better understand the ecosystems. And then, since it involves public money, there is also an entire legal aspect which is quite significant and heavy, with procedures and steps that we cannot bypass, so we had to take the time, you know, to do the calls for tenders, the calls for projects, etc., to start choosing our partners, and then even just recruiting, in fact, recruiting our project team. So as I was telling you earlier, there are six of us full-time on the project from the EF side, plus Hélène's support. And we also have focal points in the countries. So we also have 10 focal points in the 10 intervention countries where Expertise France will manage several fields of activity. So we also had to go through this process of identifying and selecting these field experts.

Fary GUEYE: So these are not necessarily experts from Expertise France; for the focal points, they are also local structures?

Raphaëlle: Exactly, in fact they are consultants, so they are not full-time on AEYA. We call on them depending on the needs and the evolution of the project. For example, during the launch phase, they supported us in conducting ecosystem studies, actor mappings, etc. But now, after that, their role will evolve according to the needs. They are somewhat our eyes and ears in the intervention countries to see how activities are going, to go talk to beneficiaries, to unblock things if needed with partners, etc. But anyway, to return to the initial question, I at least feel... we are never safe from an unexpected event, of course, but I feel quite calm and confident in this work we have done and in what we plan to do to have an impact on young people.

Fary GUEYE: That is very reassuring, I look forward to seeing the first steps of this program. So for you Hélène, coordinating this program that spans several countries from your office in Paris, I imagine it is a considerable logistical and human challenge. How do you manage today to not lose touch with this reality on the ground?

Hélène: Yes, I think first of all, the first thing is to have built a strong bond with Raphaëlle and with the team on the ground too. Also, even in terms of... you have to imagine that before being launched (so it's been a year already), the project actually existed a year before that in our heads at headquarters, since we threw ourselves into a major phase of what we call project development. So there I was leading, in fact I was all by myself with my cross-functional teams and obviously... the department, you know, we imagine a project from A to Z with the European Union, with the consortium partners, so in this case AICS. So it's really the headquarters that manages that. Then, we recruit a team on the ground and there, we try to have a good relationship that ensures a complementarity between headquarters and the field. And the stake is also truly decentralization, because at Expertise France, the majority of the staff are really on-site. So it's part of our DNA to decentralize. And then the essential thing is to always rely on local actors. I am not going to decide anything all by myself from the headquarters, obviously. And so the method, if I had to have one, would truly be to work hand in hand with the field teams and with local partners.

Fary GUEYE: Yes, so that means a lot of coordination between different actors. I imagine it must not be that easy, especially since it is across several countries.

Hélène: It's true that we are simultaneously HR, we start developing legal skills, even management skills, we are truly multi-tasking, that's for sure.

Fary GUEYE: But that is exactly why it was so important to have done this conception and launch phase, which lasted a long time, to get better acquainted with your teams. Super interesting, in fact, as Raphaëlle was saying, it's something we don't see often in development programs. Sometimes it lasts a bit less than eight months, but it's interesting, especially for a project of this scale. But to return, yes, go ahead Hélène, maybe you wanted to add something?

Hélène: No, it's just that often people think Expertise France is going to go directly on the ground, distribute 50 grants or train directly, but that's not the case. We do have pools of experts, but we work mostly through intermediary structures. So that is also everything we did during this year. It was also contractualizing, as Raphaëlle was saying, with intermediary structures which are local structures. So that takes an enormous amount of time.

Fary GUEYE: Totally. But for you, Raphaëlle, at the level of the Abidjan office today, during this year where you were able to better understand the context, the ecosystem, and your beneficiaries, what are the most notable needs among these young people that you notice?

Raphaëlle: Thank you, there are many needs, so I will try to recapitulate, it won't necessarily be an exhaustive list. And then, the young people listening to us might obviously think of other things. But I would say there is a need to build up skills, so hard skills, notably everything entrepreneurial, meaning financial management, legal structuring, etc., and also soft skills, meaning having a critical mind, knowing how to work in a team, knowing how to communicate to have an impact, things like that. They miss that a lot, it's often not learned on university benches. So our program, which I will talk about in a moment, for leadership training, will focus quite a bit on these notions. Another need would be access to networks. Several types of networks, but I am thinking notably of investor networks, mentor networks. It's super important also to have... to have examples in fact, to have role models, as they say, to be able to draw inspiration from local success stories, not just Steve Jobs, but to also have models of success and also failure in one's country or sector. That seems important to me and it's not always the case, unfortunately. And then, maybe also a need to learn how to familiarize themselves and navigate public mechanisms, donor mechanisms. It's true that it's an entirely different world. Even me sometimes it scares me even though I am in it, but the jargon, the platforms, all of that is so far from the realities of an ordinary young African. So I would say if we had to sum up the most crying needs among our youth target, it would be those.

Fary GUEYE: Okay, totally, I understand. And today, you also have several countries you work in. What is the logic behind this geographical choice?

Hélène: That was the first question I asked in my job interview: why 20 countries actually? I tried to answer then. Yes, no but it's the question we really asked ourselves, it wasn't a choice made by chance and it's truly the challenge, as Raphaëlle says, to ensure coherence across all 20 countries and with two consortium actors who don't work the same way.

Fary GUEYE: Okay, yeah... Yes...

Hélène: What we wanted was truly to have an approach in all sub-regions of sub-Saharan Africa. It was a request that came from the European Union, which has delegations set up on-site. Those delegations were also eager to have this AEYA project visible a bit everywhere. Next, we asked ourselves where the need was. The answer was that the need to support youth leadership in Africa, as you know, was truly in all countries. And so we said to ourselves: where can we go without there being a barrier to entry that is too high compared to what we can bring, and where we would put too much money into setting up a new office? And so we said, let's go to countries where EF already has activities. We know that AICS, the Italian agency, asked themselves the same question and decided to go to countries where they already had an activity to be able to capitalize on what exists, since AEYA is truly a project that slots in total complementarity with plenty of other training programs upstream and downstream, we will surely talk about it later when the question of sustainability comes up. So, that's how we chose. And then, to ensure a certain coherence anyway, we design calls that are precise, but also at the same time wide enough so that the proposals made to us by local actors can adapt to the context. So that's the way we managed to handle the situation.

Fary GUEYE: Yes, since it's one of the most important points people wonder about. How do you manage to harmonize your actions across all these countries? So you have a distribution with AICS and with Expertise française for the countries? Yes.

Hélène: And in fact, precisely, it's a good question of how to harmonize across these 20 countries, but also how precisely to be able to personalize the approach, since these 20 countries are very different. So the context of being a young leader in Mauritania today is so different from being one in the DRC or in Mozambique. It would require... it's a bit, you see, it's clearly our challenge to manage to be equitable and offer support

Fary GUEYE: Yes.

Hélène: for everyone, which can also somehow respond to needs that will sometimes be a bit specific. I won't hide from you that it's not simple, because we don't have an expandable budget, we don't have expandable time, but well, we will try to do our best.

Fary GUEYE: Yes. Yes, no, totally, I understand. And at the level of beneficiaries too, there is a focus placed on women's participation, up to 50%. So, how do you manage to guarantee precisely this real participation of women in sectors that are sometimes a bit masculinized or highly masculinized?

Hélène: Thank you, it's a real question. So not only do we have this objective of a minimum of 50% young women in our programs, but also 25% young people who come from situations of vulnerability. So it's not wishful thinking. It would be good if we redid this podcast, say in three years, and saw what we did. In any case, really, there is a real will behind it. It goes beyond a simple indicator like that which the European Union put in the contract. It is clearly a must-have. It's a will we have. It's something we discuss with partners. It's even something that is part of... Right now, we closed, in fact a few weeks ago, a call for tenders for the intermediary structures that are going to help us deliver our leadership training program for young people in each of the 10 countries that the French side takes care of. That is part of what we are going to look at precisely, their capacity to integrate young girls, to integrate youth in vulnerable situations, their experience in doing that in the country in question in the past, their recommendations too, since the notion of vulnerability—we were talking earlier about the difference in ecosystems, etc., in the 20 countries. We are not necessarily going to define vulnerability the same way for youth in Rwanda as in Guinea. So how does this local partner interpret and understand this notion, and how do they propose to integrate it?

Fary GUEYE: Yes, by the way, a question that also came to my mind when you were speaking just now, is how do you ensure that these calls for tenders can reach your beneficiaries directly? Because as you say, sometimes, if they are youth in vulnerable situations, they might not necessarily be connected to have direct access to this information. So you, at the level of your local structures, or even at the level of the Expertise France office, how do you go about it?

Raphaëlle: Yes, great question. Well, already for now, just to put it well back into context and into the global timing of the project, we haven't launched the call for applications for young people, the direct beneficiaries, yet. But it shouldn't be long. So, by anticipation, I can already explain a bit that, in fact, we will obviously... we have our dissemination channels, so I mean Expertise France's LinkedIn, the website, etc. We also have the European Union's Capacity4dev website on which we post all the project news. All calls for tenders and applications are on there for those that already took place, and will be on there for the others. And especially after that, we are setting up a system of relays, a system for diffusing our offers by relying on relays in the countries. So there are our focal points that we talked about.

Fary GUEYE: Right.

Raphaëlle: There are also our young people who are part of our Youth Advisory Board. We have a youth advisory committee who are also somehow AEYA's voice in the countries. We have all the structures we identified, that we mapped during the launch phase. We share the opportunities with them and ask them to do the same in their network. So for now, if I base it on the number of applications we received for the calls for projects and tenders that have already been launched, the information circulates pretty well. But on the other hand, it's true that it will be a real challenge for final beneficiaries, notably those in vulnerable situations, who might have less access through traditional information methods, websites and all that, how we are going to target them. And once again, we are really going to rely on the expertise and experience of local structures who will know how to say: "We are based, I don't know, in Nouakchott, but actually we work with such and such NGO that works with young girls or young disabled people or young mothers or whatever, in such and such locality, and who will be able to get the information, well the opportunity, to them."

Fary GUEYE: Yes, okay, that's a fairly decentralized approach and I think, I hope in any case once it's launched, that you will have precisely the expected results. Now, we are going into the heart of the program to learn more about the implementation. Today, regarding the grants you offer, you use a sub-grants mechanism. So that was decided right from the design phase. Maybe Hélène, if you want to speak to us precisely about this choice, to pass through intermediaries to deliver these financings. Why this choice first, and then what are the criteria precisely for awarding them to these local operators?

Hélène: Yes. So if we focus on the distribution of grants which is a big part of component 1, meaning support for youth spaces, it's true that EF doesn't necessarily have the vocation to be a direct operator with structures. We prefer to pass through intermediaries who have a better knowledge of the field and a capacity for territorial anchoring that is much stronger. And so we launched a major call for projects to identify three intermediary structures, so roughly one per sub-region. We divided the countries with a rather linguistic coherence. And so the idea is that we like passing through these structures also because they aren't just going to distribute grants, but also implement activities for young people. So it simply goes from how to do a reporting to how to... you know, be a bit more... develop one's youth space itself. And the idea is also that these intermediary structures be, if possible, structures managed by young people. So, at AEYA, we really... we try to involve... well, you see, to impose on ourselves what we advocate externally. And so, it's true that even on intermediary structures, we are sometimes led to do capacity building for these structures or at a minimum training, to also allow them to get up to speed with all the requirements of a public agency. So we can truly say that AEYA is by youth for youth at this level too. And regarding selection criteria, we selected intermediary structures that have a non-profit status, so that's one of the big criteria, and that have the capacity to manage quite substantial amounts of grants. But for the criteria of the youth spaces afterwards that will benefit from the grant, there, the criteria are quite open since we want to allow many structures to be able to benefit from it. There is the necessity to have a legal status. And in fact, we even adapted to the context. When we went on missions, we realized, for example in Côte d'Ivoire and Cameroon, that it was complicated to get NGO or association status. So, we are going to ask for a proof of registration application as an association. It's a good example of how we were able to adapt to the local context. We will also accept some that might eventually have a for-profit status if they are also capable of having a non-profit status. We ask them to have existed for 1 year, to be at least financially stable, to be able to demonstrate their balance sheet. Then this is very important: to be non-partisan, that will truly be an eliminating criterion, it's perhaps the only one actually. It's that if it's partisan and politically engaged, we won't go there since we are on supporting civic youth leaders, yes, but non-partisan. And otherwise, as Raphaëlle said, it won't be a discriminating criterion but truly a real plus if they have an inclusive dynamic, notably for women and youth in vulnerable situations.

Fary GUEYE: Okay, super interesting. You also touch upon a point regarding non-partisan youth, because often those who are, let's say, leaders and advocate precisely this engagement and are at the level of youth organizations, they are sometimes youth who are within parties or militate politically. Yes, it's an interesting and important fact, especially to integrate as many people as possible and give everyone a chance.

Hélène: There are other European Union programs that exist for youth in Parliament, youth who truly want to do advocacy. We, here, really want to support those who are not in other European Union programs that would already be highly identified as leaders. That's for that. And so we try also to be the counterpart, as I was saying, to other programs like Erasmus+, etc. We are going to look for those who didn't necessarily have the opportunity to go on Erasmus+, or the opportunity to be in other programs, or who are not elected and highly recognized leaders.

Fary GUEYE: Yes. Exactly, this question of inclusiveness also allows me to make the transition to my next question, regarding youth organizations that are bankable or not. Because precisely, for these calls for projects where there are grants, where it's young people benefiting from these grants, often it's the same ones we find across several programs. We always see the same organizations, whether in Senegal or elsewhere. Precisely, I ask you how we do to not see the same faces everywhere.

Raphaëlle: That's a good question. We were told a lot on the ground that it's always the usual suspects going from one program to another, from one grant to another. It's true that it connects with what we were saying earlier about how to diffuse these opportunities beyond existing networks so that it's not always the same ones who precisely understood how it works. It's very good for them, and they have their alerts and know very well how to apply, because sometimes it's not always easy to navigate these platforms, to know how to put together one's folder, to understand that in fact the deadline is to the exact minute. It's true, because we receive plenty of emails afterwards saying: "Yes, I submitted, but just one minute late, is it okay?" No, not at all. So there is all this knowledge, I would say, which is precious and means that it often revolves around the same ones. But well, I think we will still manage to widen the field by having precisely a great dissemination network and by relying once again on our local partners who will be able to go look beyond those who just look at institutional platforms, actually.

Fary GUEYE: Yes. OK. Yes, totally. Hélène, did you want to add something?

Hélène: No, it seems to me that there are even intermediate organizations that will help apply. At least on request. The idea is truly to give everyone their chance so that it's not just discriminating criteria that count but truly rather the impact project and the project of the youth space as such. Because we didn't finally talk that much about content, but the idea is to support spaces, meaning physical places that are for youth, by youth. And that, our missions in East Africa as in West Africa allowed us to see that it was truly something emerging enormously and that needed support. These somewhat hybrid places, with a slightly optimistic project, run by young people who need structuring and seed funding. It's truly that we want to support and we really keep that in mind, to support those who have a strong impact potential.

Fary GUEYE: OK. And so to support those who have precisely this potential you speak of, what are the mechanisms planned to accompany this scaling up? After the passage through the academy, there we talk about a real enterprise that needs to be held, a project that starts to become more mature. What are the mechanisms you put in place?

Raphaëlle: So, just to clarify for our listeners. Here, we were speaking about the grants we will give to civil society organizations that are youth-led and youth-focused, so run by youth for youth, as Hélène said, to whom we give grants to consolidate existing spaces or to develop youth spaces that can therefore be frequented by young people where they can express their leadership potential, precisely. But after that, there is another volet we call the academy. I think that's what you are referring to. This volet we call the New Leaders Lab, it's a leadership training program for young people directly. Here, it's no longer necessarily—even if it might overlap—but it's not necessarily the structure we accompany, it's the young person themselves. And so here, this program will last four months, this training program. It will start in June, there, for those listening to us, applications are starting from April. And the question arises, of course, of what happens after the program. Alright, it's great to have a capacity building over four months. But what's in it for me after? Because it's also quite what young people ask us, because somehow, they are going to put aside what they do to be able to follow this program. And what is the guarantee that behind it will lead to real opportunities? So that's something we reflect on a lot, obviously, while remaining very humble and being lucid about the fact that, yes, for us, it's a four-month program. We are unfortunately not there for longer, but we will still try to put in place mechanisms and bridges. And once again, by relying on the local partner who will have been designated, for example in Senegal where you are. If there is a certain incubator delivering our training program for youth in Senegal, we will also choose it for its existing acceleration programs, for its alumni network, for its partners, etc. And try to develop and help, precisely, this incubator to develop partnerships with investors, banks, things like that, since we also have an envelope specially dedicated to technical assistance for these incubators. The incubators will train the young people, but we will also be able to accompany them to reinforce the incubators themselves. I don't know if I was clear, but there. So, normally, with all that, it should allow reflecting on how to scale up and how to not drop these young people in nature, but how to help them mature their... knowing that as Hélène said earlier, we will be facing entrepreneurs, entrepreneur leaders, so who will need financing, this and that, and also civic leaders, community leaders who won't have perhaps therefore the same needs. They won't have the same problematics as those who are going to set up a business. They will perhaps need support to get the status of their NGO, to reflect on the sustainability of their action, how to generate regular income. There will perhaps be other questions for this type of leader.

Hélène: And the program ends with a pitch competition or a hackathon depending on the countries, and so it's also the idea to group the existing local ecosystem and give them visibility with a view either to them being taken into another program or even finding partners directly. I think we can also mention component 3 and down to the mentoring, local events which are truly there to reinforce in fact all this network aspect around young people. And mentoring will even widen horizons since the idea is to invite young people from the European Union or alumni of EU programs, or even young people from the diaspora, etc., either as mentors or mentees, well we'll see how it goes. It will be in any case by group and by sector of interest. And so the idea will truly be to widen their horizons and the idea is then to create projects together. In any case, it's even part of our indicators to know how many joint initiatives between Africa and Europe have been created, for example. So it's truly something we have at heart, this post-program.

Fary GUEYE: Super interesting, thank you very much for this information. Precisely, regarding the impact that will be generated at the level of these different programs, different opportunities, how do you measure the impact of this transcontinental networking? And how do you measure this success? Is it by, I don't know, the... who are rewarded, how do you measure it?

Hélène: Yes, on that, I looked at our logical framework and our intervention framework with indicators that are contractual. So, we have several on the number of initiatives, as I was saying, created, which feature a dimension, an approach, at least, Africa-Europe. Also the number of European actors who will be involved in component 1, since the young people who will benefit from the grants will actually be led afterwards to create a partnership with institutional European actors present on the continent. It goes from the Alliance française to the Goethe-Institut, passing by the Italian institutes of culture, and the idea is truly to involve also these European actors in support of young people. It goes with everything we were saying about allowing them to understand the mechanisms of donors, the functionings of actors, etc., European to open horizons. There are also indicators simply on the number of young people connected to other young people from other countries. We must not underestimate either the impact of pan-African connections between young people from one country to another, which is besides perhaps even the most important and the most... the most propitious to scaling up as you were saying, since before passing directly to Europe, it's still quite good to look already at the countries around. There are also plenty of things on the word that will be carried. How many young people will be capable of expressing themselves on these subjects and taking the floor also on platforms online or physically, whether in Europe or in Africa.

Fary GUEYE: Okay, so do you have a vocation to become a laboratory that influences public policies for youth in Africa anyway, or not necessarily?

Hélène: Yes, I liked this question. In fact, it would be a bit pretentious or a bit presumptuous to say that, you know, we want to be the laboratory, etc. I think that if we manage to do a great job through AEYA and have a real impact on young people, and that there are things that work in what we did, yes, it would be awesome if in certain countries, public policies appropriated the thing and redid what worked and learned from that. That would be good, it would be a plus. In any case, it's not a displayed vocation to say we want to become this laboratory. And I wanted just to complete perhaps on the indicators. Earlier, we talked about

Raphaëlle: quantitative indicators that Hélène explained to us, it's true there's already a bunch of them. But there are also qualitative indicators, which are not necessarily quantifiable, or at least much less easily, and which are according to me finally the most important. It's for example things that are measured less easily over the short term, because here we talk about transversal skills, leadership skills. These are things that are perhaps a bit more over the long term, meaning that the young person who will have been impacted by our training program, we are not necessarily going to see it the day after the last day of training. It will be perhaps over the medium-long term that they will radiate, that they will also manage perhaps to transmit around them in their community what they managed to acquire through this program and the opportunities around this program. So there are all these questions. There is also for me a somewhat invisible indicator, it would be: how has AEYA become finally an ecosystem? How does this network of alumni who passed through AEYA manage to live outside of any intervention from EF or the EU or AICS? How is a young person based in Brazzaville going to set up a project with another AEYA youth who is in Douala or you know, things like that which are more difficultly quantifiable but which are...

Fary GUEYE: Yes, absolutely. It's everything that is also in connection with Component 3, which is this networking of youth from different countries. Okay, super interesting. It's not something easily noticeable, but let's say in five years, if you come back, you see that there are projects formed following these collaborations, that is an important indicator.

Raphaëlle: Yes. Yes, that's it, youth spaces to whom we had given the first grant and which finally now have developed, have become a must-have in the city in question, which managed also to pull afterwards other grants or other investors because we will have perhaps allowed that at the start.

Fary GUEYE: Perfect. So on the question of sustainability, how do you envisage precisely the end of the program? I know that here, we are not yet in the real decline, but it's also important that you tell us how you see precisely the after-AEYA.

Raphaëlle: Yes, so it's true it's a bit difficult to project already on the after-AEYA because we have our heads so much in the handlebars right now on launched activities. But well, yes, these are questions that must be asked right now and I think there are different answers according also to the target we talk about. Because there is the after-AEYA for youth, we just talked a little bit about it. There is the after-AEYA for civil society organizations that had the grant. How do we help them acquire a financial autonomy? There, there is the entire technical assistance volet I was speaking about earlier, because I mentioned I think the technical assistance for incubators and training organisms that take care therefore of delivering the New Leaders Lab which is the training program for youth, but there is also the technical assistance for civil society organizations beneficiaries of grants to precisely help them structure themselves, reflect on their durability: how to go look for other grants, how also to become autonomous outside of grants so as to not always depend on someone else. It's not going to start right away, but rather next year, once the beneficiaries of these grants have been identified, that they will have already started to receive the money and disburse. If you want to complete. No, you said it all.

Fary GUEYE: Okay, perfect. So today, if there is a youth organization listening to us or a young entrepreneur highly interested by this program, what do you want to tell them? What is the first step to join the AEYA adventure?

Raphaëlle: Well, it would be... I don't know besides, I ask the question live, but is there a way to put afterwards in the comments or somewhere in the podcast the link directly to our page on Capacity4dev, which is hosted by the European Union, because that's where there will be all the information, and notably our AEYA Insight, not to say our newsletter, which is therefore AEYA Insight, which is a quarterly letter

Fary GUEYE: Absolutely. OK. OK, that works.

Raphaëlle: where we precisely put a bit of all the news of the project and one can... well the young person going onto Capacity4dev could have it and especially could click on the button to subscribe in fact, and to receive this newsletter directly on their email address if they are not already in our database. For now we sent it for example to all those who came to our launch event. We did a launch event in Dakar precisely. There were more than 400 participants and so they had left us their contact. They are in the database, but if there are others who weren't there and who wished to be kept informed, they can go to the Capacity4dev page.

Fary GUEYE: Oh, great! Okay, super, we will put it in the YouTube description and the different descriptions so that people can have access to it. I'll let you complete.

Hélène: Yes, we are a public agency, so we really have the vocation to diffuse opportunities not only to the greatest number but also to the best people who match the opportunities. Truly, there won't be any retention of information done. We were highly questioned when we take the floor or when we do missions by young people telling us: "Is it going to be a umpteenth project that will support still the same ones and we won't even see the calls for tenders pass?" We are really going to try to not do that precisely. So we invite everyone to go consult our Capacity4dev page and to subscribe to AEYA Insight also to be informed in real time.

Fary GUEYE: Perfect. So all information is at the disposal of these youth organizations, of these young people to be able to participate in this program. Do not hesitate at all. And so to recall quickly this selection process for these youth organizations, we said it at the beginning, but since we lean a bit towards the end, maybe we'll return to it quickly. So for a youth organization, how can it participate in this program for the grants?

Hélène: In fact, there is a call for applications that will be issued by the intermediary structures we have just identified, by the way. I cannot yet reveal the name, and which will therefore be sent into the 20 countries, which will pass also through our institutional relays, so from Expertise France, AICS, the European Union, but also our local relays. So the idea will truly be just to apply as an organization and respond therefore to the call for applications with a selection process that will be very clear, and we will sit on the selection committee on the same title as the intermediary organizations. And for the other volet of activity concerning the training of youth, the call for applications will also be launched in April to be able to receive this link, to apply and see precisely what the criteria are, what the deadline is, what we ask exactly. So it will be necessary to go to the Capacity4dev page or follow the Expertise France page on social networks for example. We always put the hashtag #AEYA, #AEYAAcademy, because well, we will post on it to the maximum.

Fary GUEYE: OK, so your centralized platforms are Capacity4dev and the networks of AEYA.

Hélène: Yes, that's it. In fact, we don't have a page dedicated to AEYA. So it serves nothing to look for a page on Facebook or an AEYA website. But it's rather on the networks of EF, the EU, and AICS. With the hashtag.

Fary GUEYE: With the hashtag, alright. Perfect. So we note that. I hope that for the young people listening to us, they also noted and that they will be able precisely to find all this information via these links, via these channels.

Hélène: For the young people listening to you, just to clarify, it is necessary that they be between 18 and 30 years old. I say it at the same time like that. There is not the one who is 35 or the one who is 40 who is going to say: "No but with us, we are young when we are 40." I quite agree, except that here, it was necessary to put a limit, so the limit is set at 30 years old.

Fary GUEYE: Yes, you are right to specify this limit, precisely. Very well. So, look well at the eligibility conditions and apply to the program that matches your organization. Perfect. And so, since we approach the end, could you share with us advice for organizations, donors, development institutions wishing to set up multi-country projects? It's quite complex, so to keep this agility on the ground, what advice do you want to share with us?

Hélène: It's not an easy question. I know there are several European Union projects underway and coming up that are in this dynamic of doing pan-African and having a fairly encompassing approach to touch truly a specific sector of activity. But I think it's necessary anyway to be careful to not want to go into all countries so that it's not just an operation of sprinkling impact, because 49 countries would truly be impossible to do, even if we have the impression that with 15 million euros, we can do everything. In the end, when we reduce by country, it's not that enormous. So truly ask ourselves the right question of the countries to target. Obviously, not only launch studies at the scale of the continent, but truly try to go dig the context by country. And so, if possible, either by doing missions, or by relying on experts on-site, because obviously, each country—it's a bit of a cliché—but has very specific stakes. For example, there are countries where we were told: "Attention, it's truly necessary that you support young girls." That is very important. Other countries that told us: "We always forget people in situations of vulnerability, of disability." Others who told us: "But don't forget the small associations of civil society too." Truly, each country is quite different. And also the importance of well co-constructing with actors on-site, in fact, at each step. And so I particularly appreciate our youth advisory committee. So these are young people we truly sorted on the slot, especially on motivation besides, since they gain nothing, in fact, from being part of this committee, apart from just having the assurance of having a strong impact. And so we solicit them quite regularly on the design of our activities, we invite them to our events obviously. We rely on them for dissemination, and so that is very important to put young people even in governance. If it's a youth project, well put young people in governance. If it's a women's project, put women in governance. It sounds simple, but it remains all the same an extra activity because our governance is heavy as a consortium, as a multi-partner program, but it's important and it demonstrated to us that at each step, it was truly the key.

Fary GUEYE: Yes, totally. You want to add something, Raphaëlle?

Raphaëlle: No, yes, I was just going to complete Hélène to say that when we do it, consequently, it mustn't be just for communication. So it's necessary to accept to truly share power, well governance. That is to say, the trap is also to say that we consult young people, then in fact behind, we decide otherwise. And that is a bit more frustrating consequently for young people. It's true that to give a concrete example, we thought to ourselves: do we do restricted or open calls for tenders, because it's a possibility. When we say restricted, we consult all the same a certain number of actors that we would have pre-identified on recommendation of local actors. And in fact, given the reactions we had in at least two of our ten missions, we said to ourselves: the principle itself of the restricted call for tenders, that won't pass and it will create frustrations, even tensions. And effectively, the young people told us: "No, no, but it's necessary to do open calls." It's super important precisely to come out also a bit from... you know, always the same ones we identify.

Fary GUEYE: It's true that if it were restricted today, it would be complicated to have those impacts we were speaking about earlier. To measure them, it's going to be quite complicated. We would always have the same feedback. I totally understand the request.

Hélène: And perhaps last thing, it's to be careful to well communicate also in several languages. So we also, on request of Rwandan youth, in Cameroon notably, published our calls for tenders in English. And we know that the Italians, AICS, are going to publish also the calls for projects in Portuguese for the youth who will be in Mozambique.

Fary GUEYE: Okay, oh great! It's an important volet so that everyone can feel concerned and that they truly understand the programs for which they are eligible.

Hélène: Yes, and we hope even that local relays will be able to do communications in local languages.

Fary GUEYE: Yes, it's great. Hence the importance truly to include the maximum number of people who can intervene in these programs and who could precisely help widen these diffusions. That is a fairly important approach and I am happy precisely that we speak of it. So for another donor wishing to invest in African youth, because here, it's a program that is all the same exclusively made for youth, what advice would you give them in any case to not fall into the classic traps of technical assistance? Especially if there is also an entrepreneurship volet, it's necessary that we don't reproduce, let's say, the same patterns. What advice do you give them?

Hélène: Yes, great question. I would say to think about financing capacities, not only activities. So to invest in fact in the development of individuals or structures, but go beyond the financing of pure activity. To simplify procedures. Easy to say, but for those who can, it makes all the difference, to try truly to reduce this administrative complexity. And then, yes, to take back a bit what we were saying earlier, perhaps invest in networks beyond individuals to hope to have more impact. And accept—and that also there, it's part also of the limits of our project—but accept the long time. That is to say that there we talk about youth, we talk about transformation, we talk about life paths, in fact. It's not a budget cycle of 24 months. It's much longer than that. And it's often a bit difficult for donors. And I understand too, I don't have the miracle solution, in any case, if there were a way perhaps different to think the investment in this youth, without falling into classic traps, I would say to accept also this uncertainty and this time.

Fary GUEYE: Effectively, it's a risk to take, but it's very important to do it, to take the time to do it well in any case. Yes, that I think was a good advice to close precisely this exchange. Thank you very much Raphaëlle, thank you very much Hélène for this exchange. It was very enriching for me. In any case, I learned a lot and I hope that the young people listening to us also were able to have the answers to the questions they asked themselves. For the donors listening to us too, I hope that this program will allow you precisely to think about the programs you are going to design and to be able to make a maximum of people benefit from it. Thank you very much for this exchange. I'll let you share with us your final word.

Hélène: Well already, I was going to thank you too Fary, thank you very much for the preparation of this podcast, of this interview, for the questions which help us also I think to take a bit of distance on our practice, the way we envisage things. It's true we have our heads so much in the handlebars with all the team, we are passionate by what we do, but sometimes just stopping two minutes and reflecting on all that is super interesting. So thank you. And then I hope that yes, I hope that it will have perhaps inspired certain listeners and that we will have many beautiful applications from young people. Yes, and then just a small word for the team consequently in Abidjan. So Patricia, Ouezzin, Éric, Leslie, and Dominique, we send them a small hello. And all our experts. And all our experts, but there the list is long.

Fary GUEYE: Thank you very much to all the people who are involved in this program and who make sure that the beneficiaries can profit from it as planned. So, thank you very much for this information. Thank you very much to all the teams mobilized on this program. For the listeners, as I was saying truly, stay on the lookout for the information that will be shared on this program. Do not hesitate to consult the Capacity4dev page and the links we will put in the description. And then there, good luck to everyone applying. I look forward to seeing the results of AEYA in a few years. Thank you very much.

Hélène: Thank you Fary.